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Lets Discuss Latias =D

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Should Latias be banned?

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Lets Discuss Latias =D

Post  Pif on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:31 am

Overview

I would like to discuss why Latias is an OU pokemon. Since tiers are directly related to strategy in this league, tiering of Latias is also related to this league. I will make my position very clear; I believe that Latias should be banned to the Uber tier to make the OU metagame healthier, or at least more enjoyable. Before I begin, I would like all of you to know OU pokemon are banned to the Uber tier because they are too powerful for OU, they make the metagame too focused on that pokemon, Latias in this case. Even if nobody would use Latias in Ubers, it would still be Uber because a pokemon's standing in Ubers has no influence on its tier.

Why Ban Latias you say?

Contention 1: Latias has no true counters.

Counters are pokemon that can switch an other pokemon and force the opponent to switch out, cripple it or faint it while not being reasonably threatened by the opponent. Immediately you might think of two potential counters, Blissey and Tyranitar. Blissey can be handily defeated by either a Refresh set or being tricked a choice item. Tyranitar can be beaten by Specs Dragon moves or repeated Surfs, Pursuit from Scarftar will not OHKO Latias even with no defensive EV investment. In all of OU, no pokemon can switch in and defeat Latias reliably. You might say this is true of Lucario and Dragonite too, both can use Special moves to hamper the common physical walls who switch in. Latias has far more Speed and more Special bulk than either of them. This lets her set up with far more ease, necessitating her "counters" to be alive more than either Dragonite or Lucario.

Contention 2: Latias can, single handedly, dismantle an entire play style, full stall.

Stall, whether you like it or not, is a style of play, an extremely efficient one at that as I have shown many of you. This debate does not allow personal opinion such as "I hate stall so Latias should be kept OU." If you were to go by that reasoning, one might keep Lugia and Giratina OU because "I hate offensive teams". The set that Latias can employ to beat full stall I am speaking of, is of course Refresh/Calm MInd Recover/Dragon Pulse. Before you go around calling CM Clefable to be banned, let me remind you that Calm Blissey can effectively stop CM Clefable but falls prey to Latias. If a pokemon can make an entire play style null then I believe it is too centralizing. New pokemon on stall teams are being experimented, just to beat Latias, such as Scarftar (which as I mentioned may lose to Latias still). Myself I had to employ Bronzong just to keep Latias at bay; I only use my team as an example since many of you are familiar with it. There are stall teams that would be extremely effective if it was not for Latias and I believe this is too centralizing for a healthy metagame.

Solution

The simplest solution would be to ban Latias on all league matches. I would love to hear any support and criticism for this idea, since I know many of you might not like Latias being banned. There are probably other reasons to ban Latias so feel free to list them all, as well as rebuttals. If you want, answer the attached poll. Thanks!

Have a nice day,

God- (a.k.a dA pIFSTER)










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Re: Latias

Post  Address Unknown on Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:58 am

Latias has already been banned along with Salamence Very Happy The league is Smogon OU

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Re: Lets Discuss Latias =D

Post  Pif on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:56 am

Ok let me revise this then. This is why Latias should be banned on the Pokemon Experte ladder. You can still have a discussion about this. plz ):

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Re: Latias

Post  Address Unknown on Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:12 am

You should post that on here then, The actual pokemon lab server http://forum.poke-lab.com/viewforum.php?f=2 This is only about the Unknown League Very Happy

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Re: Lets Discuss Latias =D

Post  Drorrock on Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:44 pm

several comments on this:
1. latias is banned
2. latias does have several solid counters: choice band Gallade, Choice scarf tyranitar, Blissey (it cant beat latias sets with refresh and recover, but if it is running these, its likely a monoattacker running dragon pulse, which means scizor can counter it)
3. Stall teams can beat latias without too much trouble. If they have set entry hazards, they can easily phaze latias out with skarmory, as even +4 dragon pulse fails to ohko skarmory. Now, if it is their last pokemon, it can be more challenging, but bronzong is quite common for stall teams, and can hold that set at bay, but to be honest, latias is by no means the best stallbreaker in ou. Infernape, gliscor and dragonite can all dismantle stall teams at least as well.

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Re: Lets Discuss Latias =D

Post  Pif on Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:01 am

Ok I only posted this since this section seemed dead. Can't you just discuss this for discussion's sake?
There are no universal counters to Latias since Gallade can be OHKO's by a Specs Draco Meteor and Tyranitar can be 2HKOd by Specs Surf or Draco Meteor with Stealth Rock and Spikes up. Skarmory cannot phaze a last pokemon Latias. Hazards bar Stealth Rock do not affect Latias. Scizor can counter only some sets but loses to Specs set, hence there is no universal counter.

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Re: Lets Discuss Latias =D

Post  YUSER on Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:28 pm

latias is banned already, as au said, the league is smogon ou.
Inb4 locked topic.

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Re: Lets Discuss Latias =D

Post  Drorrock on Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:28 pm

Pif wrote:Ok I only posted this since this section seemed dead. Can't you just discuss this for discussion's sake?
There are no universal counters to Latias since Gallade can be OHKO's by a Specs Draco Meteor and Tyranitar can be 2HKOd by Specs Surf or Draco Meteor with Stealth Rock and Spikes up. Skarmory cannot phaze a last pokemon Latias. Hazards bar Stealth Rock do not affect Latias. Scizor can counter only some sets but loses to Specs set, hence there is no universal counter.

uhhhh tyranitar is 2hko'd by specs, therefore scarftar can come in on it and outrun and kill

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Re: Lets Discuss Latias =D

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